HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980 Nov 17 BOH Meeting Minutes 1
����Y`���. �r � � N a � ��.�. � o � � �
"�`',+�.,/�."'�',' o ..�..�
r..>� ��•� . .
��.��i "���= y sovTx ���.x��ov� u���rz,�ssncxvsf��rrs c��h��a
o'�.,���,�-��a��,::::
�('}���MATTA"M"�S '�' BOARD OF HEALTH
`v y,�:AiG'�1C��A�� .
_J ��
-� -
Board of Health Meeting �lovember 17, 1980
Members Present: Chairman, Virginia Robinson, Kathleen Ambrose, Dr. �acob
Fine, Dr. Harold Gur�ha, Gerald Garnick.
Others Present: Health Officer, Bruce Murohy. ,
Agenda:
1. t�leeting commenced at 7:00 v.m., at which time Dr. Fine commented on the
workload of the Board of Selectmen and the Health Department as evident in
the material he had read through. He comnlimented the secretary, Ms. Visceg- _
lio on the typing of the minutes .of_ the meetings. Dr. Fine did ask, though,
that the minutes of the November 6th meeting be checked with reference to the
third party billing statement for the Rehabilitation and Sports htedicine As-
sociation; also, for the word "�•ledicaid". The word "Staqh" to be corrected
for saelling. A motion was then made by Mr. Garnick to acceat the minutes.
This was seconded by Dr. Fine. All,,voted in favor.
2. Variance for Lot 37 - Parsonage Point Road: Present: �im Crowell, who
was representing the engineering firm of C.R. Short, Inc; Property o��ner,
�oel Wolfson, and Mrs. Eunice Walsh, the proqosed buyer. Site plans were dis-
tributed to the board members.
Mr. Crowell gave a brief history of the area in question, stating that in 1965 �
it was aaaroved as a sub-division, and later, in 1966 it was re-sub-divided.
Going over the qlans, Mr. Crowell pointed out that there is a drainage ease-
ment.with an existing open erosion ditch which drains into the pond from a 12"
qipe. He added that they are trying to get two building lots, one of which is
lot 37, adding that the lots were not easy to build on due to the slooe in-
volved. Mr. Crowell_informed the board that the soil conditions are excellent
and that the aond level was taken in �un;. of 1980, and using that information,
the engineers felt they had "a maximum level of high water.
Mr. Murphy asked Mr. Crowell if the Conservation Cornrnission had confirmed this,
and whether alans had been submitted to them or to the Engineering Department.
Mr. Crowell replied, no, but that �ohn�Newton had looked at the plans. Dr. Fine '
� asked, what if the Board of Health were to approve and the other departments
did not. Mr. Crowell replied, this could be worked out; if Planning Board turned.
this down, they would then go to the Board of Appeals to qrove.a hardship existed.
Dr. Gursha asked if there �vere dwellings on lots 36 and 39; t�lr. Crowell revlied,
yes, as there are on all the other lots on the lagoon. Dr. Gursha asked him if
they intended to have the Planning Board change the alans; P-ir. Crowell answered,
yes. . _
t•1r. h1urphy told Mr. Crowell that the one maJor concern is the aossible adverse
effects to the abutting pond in asking for a variance from 100' down to 60' for
the lacation of the disnosal facilities. He explained that because of this con- .
cern he �vould like to see a hydrological engineer contacted who �vould be able
to state that there would be no adverse effects to the pond.
�•1r. Garnick asked t�lr. Cro�vell if it ►vere true that the house would be 30' from
the �vater, to �vhich he replied, yes; that it was the farthest they could get,
due to the death and size of the lot;, adding that they were trying to keen the
seatic system at the front of the lot. The plans call for 3 flow diffusors,
needed for the qroposed 3 bedrooms, and because of a full basement, they would
have to request a variance. - '
BOARD OF HEALTH page 2.
Mrs. Robinson explained that the concern of the board is the possible effect
to the qond, adding that the regulation amendments are for a qurpose; one of
�vhich is to arotect our groundwater.
P�ir. Garnick stated that he would have no difficulty in_granting a variance,
as it was within limits of the State Regulations, however, due to the slope in-
� volved, he would need some sort of assurance that no adverse effects would oc-
cur to the pond. f�rs. Robinson replied that this is tivhat the board discussed
last tveek, that the burden of proof should be qresented to us stating that it
is not going to contaminate this nond. Mr. Garnick agreed that we need this
assurance and asked if they could give that assurance.
Mrs. Ambrose asked �hat effect this house, if built, would have on the erosion
ditch in the future. P�r. Crotivell renlied that this would be eliminated, seeded
in_and stabilized by eliminating_the pipe and installing a catch basin and re-
paving end of embankment. f�r. Plurphy then told him that he �vould have to have
anproval from the Engineering Denartment first. before he proceeded with this.
Mr. Cro�vell then stated that the toq of the foundation is at 1.6' above the high
point of the road and for this they would be seeking a variance also. P1r. Mur-
nhy then asked. if he would comment on differences between high and lo� points .
of the road vs. foundation elevations. Mr. Crowell felt that the situation would
improve if regulations read 2' above low point in road, as water seeks the lo�
voint; if foundation were 2' above that there would be no qroblems. At 2' above
the high_aoint; -:it �akes�no se�se=at ali: �.
P�1r. Murqhy asked t�r. Cro�vell if one catch basin would be sc�fficient, to �vhich
he replied that it would be either one or two catch basins, deaending upon either
a 10 or 20 year design.
Mr. Garnick asked if they would need Conservation approval for the house to be
located 30' from the pond; Mr. Crowell answered that he would prefer a viewing
of the. site first by the Conservation Commission before asking for formal ap-
proval. P1r. Garnick then as!<ed who would be able to give the. board a professior�al
assurance that the aond v�ould not be adversely effected. t4r. Growell asked if
�vhat he meant was something in writing, and Mr, Garnicic replied, yes, and if he
could give this, then he would have rio question to granting the variance; but if
it �vas going to effect the �vater then he would say no. Dr. Fine supported this,
stating that there was a time factor involved; not knowing what would haapen
twenty years from no►v, but if they had something in writing from a arofessional
� source they could go back to.,that would state the board had this backing.on
which they based.'their decision. Mr. Crowell ageed; adding that this was some-
what parallel to where we have had to make a Flood Plain statement.. Mr. Murahy
asked him if he thought this should come from a hydrologist; and Mr. Crorvell re-
plied, no, that a professional engineer who is licensed �to do this �vould be �
able to, as they assume a lot of resaonsibility tvhen issuing a statement dealing
with Flood Plain areas, etc. _ _
. tdr. Garnick then informed P1r. Cro�vell. that the board had to have somethirtg in
the way of an assurance, as without this there would be no variance granted.
Dr. Gursha asked if there were aray engineers on the Cape who specialized in this
field, of hydrology; to which Mr. Crowell renlied there were none that he kneW. :_ _
of exceat those who work with the larger companies such as EYhitman-Howard, etc.,
and that we had to make do with the best we have. At this point, hirs. Robinson
stated that she did not think that it was a question of having to make do with
what we have, rather, it �vas a matter of the board taking a stand and requesting .
a guarantee that there would_be no danger to the nond. She stated that she had
no difficulty in granting a variance, if someone professionally trained could
tell. us that if this lot is_built on, and all these other lots around the aond
are built on �ve will not have another Long Pond on our hands. She.added that -
the board had discussed this last week, although without the plans.
� t4r. Cro►vell then stated that his firm could not be exnected to take liability
for all the other lots built on that may be closer to the pond, many of tivhich
� probably do not know tivhere their septic systems are located.
BOARD OF HEALTH qage 3.
F1rs. Robinson stated that maybe t�1rs. lyalsh might want to check with Conserva-
tion first, before qroceeding; of which Dr.- Gursha asked if there were_any
to�vn directives.or.regulations stating that a aerson must go to Conservation
first, etc. h1r. Murphy replied that for the aast month or two he has been re-
quiring the Conservation and Engineering Department to sign-off first before
:. . coming to the Health Deoartment. Dr. Gursha then asked Mr. CroweJ.l that
if. this was so, would it not be better for him to. first apply to Conservation;
P•1r. Cro�vell responded with,"in tvhat resvect_'. Dr. Gursha. replied that if you
got your approval from Conservation, you could then go on. Mr. Crowell; from
that noint of view �+e are required to file �vith the D.E.O.E. at the same time
�ve file with Conservation, Derhaps we could put in a request for their help in
observing the qond, etc.; they are supqosed to helq all of us, however, I am
not sure they would, or could. ' -
hirs. Robinson then as)<ed, how many homes.�vere in this particular area; P9r. Cro-
well; aaproximately 12 built on the aond. Mr. lVolfson informed the board that
there are 3 lots facing the pond which he o�vns that are not built on at pre-
sent. t•1rs. Robinson then asked that if a variance were granted and someone
then wished to build on Lot 40, would there be enough room for the facilities;
Mr. 1Volfson replied, yes.
After some discussion re; steps and procedures, Mr. Garnicic stated that the
board should act as a seaarate entity and he did not think it fair for the board
to make decisions by making it contingent upon other boards, etc. to act first.
He emvhasized again that the board had to receive some tyae of assurance for
=' lot 37 with regards to the pond, especially as it slopes down directly to the
oond. Dr. Fine added that he sutworted this request and asked that the assurance
be presented to the board in writing. �
Mr. 1'�olfson then asked exactly.�rhat this meant and what would be the next step.
Mr. Garnick resaonded to his question, stating that he should consult an engineer
who had the qualifications and exvertise. in this area to render such an assur- '
ance. Mr. Crowell replied that this would involve a larger engineering firm
who deals in this_particular area of engineering. He explained that C.f�. Short, �
Inc., had been involved in the Craigville Beach area, i.e., flood zQne,: �vave
design, storm conditions, etc., and felt this was somervhat similar to the area
in question. He expressed his.ouinion that a guar.antee was going to be diffi-
cult to get; at which aoint Mr. Garnick asked him not to misinterqret_the
k�oard's meaning, ,stating that they were not asking for a guarantee, but rather
something that would satisfy the health agent and the board.
P1r: Crowell told the board that perhaps Mr. Short will approach other engineers
in the area and asl: their opinions, as they probably �vill be faced with this
same sort of situation sooner or later. ,
� ��1rs. Robinson then reminded the board that what was being discussed� at tonight's '
meeting ►tias essentially the same as last week's meeting tivith the exception of
the additional information provided by Mr. Crowell; therefore, the board should
now make 'some sort of a decision; to ei�her tell C4rs. 1'�aish that there would
be no variance, or tp ask that she con� :back �vith the burden of proof from sor��e-
one that is qualified that_this drainage system. is not going to harm this pond,
so. that then she can take the aqnronriate steps, - - - , -
t1r. Garnick then made a motion to-tabie the reques� for` t�vo rveeks until such
time that the engineer could come back tvith some type of assurance that the
pond would not be harmed by the proqosed disposal facilities. This was se- -
conded by f•irs. Nribrose. Vote �vas unanimous. To be on December 1, 1980 agenda. '
Mr. Garnick then stated that the board was going to have to set a procedure, to
• be consistent with regards to variances that would come before them; that it
not be Just for the variance before them tonight, but for anyone -else that may _____
. come before them in the future. Dr. Fine agreed that they be consistent.
Mr. Mur�hy then raised several poin.ts in question with regards to the site olans
that had been submitted to them by C.R. Short, Inc. , which he addressed to Mr.
Crowell. - �
_ I
BOARD OF HEALTH page 4. �
<,�.�, �.s_,-�G. .e�-a� � � � �
(1) Mr. Mur�hy oointed out that the dimensions shown on the plans for the flow
diffusors were 8x26 with a 4' width, yet the area of stone was at 1' ; he asked
if this should not read 2' of stone as l' would accommodate a 6x26 diffusor and
this would not be sufficient. Mr. Crowell, in checking the olans, agreed and
said he would make a note to have the calculations checked. (2) Mr. Murqhy told
Mr. Crowell that all final site olans submitted must have the stamp and signature
of a registered land surveyor in addition to that of the engineer. He asked if
the absence of the surveyors stamo were due to these olans not being the final
ones; Mr. Crowell agreed that all plans should have both stamas; then he asked
if they should bring the qlans in to the Health Office 3 to 4 days before the
next board meeti�ng to go over them re; any questions or changes required. Mr.
P4ur�hy renlied, yes, and that the nlans have to be submitted to him for the
hearing by Wednesday, November 26th, at the latest. (3) Mr: Murphy asked Mr.
Crowell if he felt that the Conservation would.agree with the high water mark ..`
that �is on the nlans, or would they be shifting this closer and thus would re-
sult in asking for a closer variance. Mr. Crowell replied that they had better
have a viewing with the Conservation first; to which Mr. Mur�hy replied that in
that case, .as the alans stand now, they could be off a couple of feet or more,
which could mean asking for a variance of 55' �nstead of the 60' now requested.
hir. Murnhy nointed out that this is one of the reasons that he liked to have
olans go to Conservation first so that when the qlans got to him he would know
what,exactly, Conservation had set the markings at which would result in a true
reading. Mr. Garnick felt that Conservation could view area and plans first; to
which Mr."Murphy inquired as to whether they should aerhaps fi.le with Conserva-
tion first. Mr. Garnick replied that he had made a very good point, which was
imaortant. At this point Mr. Murohy introduced Forrest White, a member of the
Conservation Commission, and then asked him if he would care to outline the aro-
cedures for filing with Conservation. Mr. White answered that they must file a
Notice of 'Intent with Conservation, which is a regular nrocedure; then Conserva-
tion determines if the lot is a buildable lot; and whether they have made all
the necessary apnlications to various deoartments involved; whether they have
filed with the Board of Aopeals, if necessary. Mr. White then said that by looking
at the plans, it appeared to him that they would have to get adproval from the
Board of Aoneals due to the location of the disposal facilities, mean�,ng they
were within 75' of the conservancy district, they would need a variance for this.
He stated that. Conservation would be looking at the closeness of the house to
the pond. Mr."�Murphy then asked if they could file first �vith Conservation;
Mr. White said, ryes, their decision was made aending anaroval from the Board of
Health. At this ooint Mr. Crowell resaonded that it would appear there was a
double standard, in that two boards had to give aDoroval for the location of
the seotic system; $oard of Health and the Board of Appeals; asking which board � '
was more important, and if they had any conflicts; which he stated made it more.
confusing. Dr. Fine agreed, that it did, indeed, create confusion, and. that he
should file with Conservation as soon as possible as there had already been some -
delay and did not want 'to see it go on indefinitely, Mr. White res�onded that �
� there would be more of a delay if they ciid not file right away with. the Conser-
vation, as there was a 30 day period involved. - - -
t�tr. Garnick then reneated what Mr. Murnhy had previously requested; asking for
the high water mark to be determined by Conservation and for this to be added
to the plans, as it was very important. �
Mr. White then asked if the Conservation Commission could receive a copy of ,
the documentation that is to be submitted to the Board of Health by the engineer.
The board agreed.
There were .no further questions regarding this request_and .discussion was ended._
3. Variance Request: Lot 2 - Wood Rd.: Present: Mr. Thomas E. Kelley, Engineer,
and t�r. Richard Nietz, Realtor.
Mr. t�lurphy gave a brief summary with reference to Lot 2, Wood Road, which is a
pronosed building si�te. _He exnlained the lot is located next to oroaerty owned